My friends the headlines today are all over the place:
New Yorker (blog)
Where the GOP goes on gay marriage
Newsday
Partisan divide marks cases on gay marriage
MSNBC
Gay marriage fight divides supporters
Yahoo! News (blog)
John Boehner 'Can't Imagine' His Gay Marriage Views Shifting
myfox8.com
Winston-Salem church to stop weddings until gay marriage allowed
New York Times
A Shift on Gay Marriage
ABC News
High-Profile Politicians Who Changed Their Positions on Gay Marriage
Christian Science Monitor
CPAC conservative activists wrestle with same-sex marriage
Politico
GOP elite embraces Portman's gay marriage switch
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But what does God say? Here is a great research discussion on Bible Gateway to bring you up to speed. Click on the links for a detailed study. Note this does NOT supercede our command to love everyone, BUT we must love God first and therefore obey HIS commandments.
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The Bible- What it says
There are claims that the Bible does not really condemn homosexual behavior or that Jesus would not condemn this behavior. But let's look at what the Bible actually says. The Bible contains 9 specific references to homosexuality: 4 in the Old Testament (Genesis 19:1-25; Judges 19:22-30; Leviticus 18:22; andLeviticus 20:13) and 5 in the New Testament (Romans 1:24-28; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; 1 Timothy 1:8-11; 2 Peter 2:6-10; and Jude 7). The passage in Romans, in particular is so clear that it seems to have been written by St. Paul in anticipation that people might challenge the idea that homosexual behavior is wrong (in case you don't get it, let me make it perfectly clear!). In addition, there are numerous other passages that touch on this topic indirectly through comments on the biblical view of marriage and family, promiscuity, and sexual purity. Included in these references areGenesis 2:18-25; Proverbs 18:22; Mark 7:21, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-5;Romans 6:13, 13:13; 1 Corinthians 6:13, 18-19; Galatians 5:19-21;Colossians 3:5; Revelation 21:8, 22:15. Homosexual behavior is always discussed in the Bible as a serious sin. It is often discussed in the context of idolatry. In that context it is listed among other particularly heinous sins as examples of how depraved one can become when idolatry is present. Idolatry is a most serious offense against God, and its seriousness helps explain why homosexual behavior was a capital offense in the Old Testament. Historical Christian interpretation has consistently viewed homosexual behavior as sinful. The modern word sodomy even comes from the biblical account of Sodom and Gomorrah. It should be pointed out that what the Bible condemns is not personality traits such as feminine feelings on the part of a man (or masculine feelings on the part of a woman). However, Jesus taught that sin runs deep. He said, "I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28; compare Mark 7:15-23). But notice the statement in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11: "such were some of you." This seems a clear indication that homosexuals can change. While our basest instincts of many sorts are difficult to control, we are not like animals in the forest; we can overcome our temptations to become blameless in God's sight (Philippians 2:15; Colossians 1:22; 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8; 1 Timothy 3:1-13, 5:7, 6:14; Titus 1:6; 1 John 3:4-10). There are those who take some of the passages of Scripture above and attempt to show that they do not really mean to condemn homosexuality. But these arguments fall short, and upon investigation become an obvious ploy to distort the plain meaning of Scripture. As applies to other doctrines of the Bible, one must avoid trying to interpret Scripture in light of one's proclivities, and instead, interpret one's proclivities in light of Scripture. The Bible is its own grid. It is wrong to overlay your own grid on the Bible. For a more detailed look at this, see Biblical Interpretation. - Is the biblical view still valid?
One view, that the law in Leviticus was intended for the ancient Hebrews and does not apply today, must be considered. The Old Testament condemns as evil many things that are commonly accepted in the modern world (eating pork, etc.). It is helpful to understand the difference between CIVIL or CEREMONIAL LAWS versus MORAL LAWS in the Bible. While civil or ceremonial laws can and do change from country to country, moral laws do not change because they are rooted in the nature of man. The New Testament repealed various Old Testament ceremonial Jewish laws (Acts 10:12-15, Colossians 2:11-16, Romans 14:17). But, the Bible is consistent throughout on moral law, which includes homosexual behavior. But is the Old Testament punishment of death for homosexuality still valid? No. We see in John 8 how Jesus treats the adulterous woman. He condemns her actions, yet helps here escape the severe penalties common in their culture.
- What did Jesus say about homosexuality?
No specific sermon or story that Jesus may have given about specific homosexual behavior is found in Scripture. But an argument from silence would be incorrect. The Bible does not record that Jesus ever mentioned rape, incest, pedophilia, bestiality, or other blatant sins by name either. But just because Jesus does not mention them, does not imply that we should commit these offenses against God and each other. Jesus is very clear on the proper marriage relationship (Matthew 19:4-5). There can be no mistaking what Jesus taught in this regard. In this passage Jesus is reiterating what Moses taught (Genesis 2:24) about marriage and family. Anything contrary to this—any sexual relationship outside of a committed marriage relationship between one man and one woman—demeans the institution of marriage and is unbiblical. Jesus was quite clear about his contempt for sexual immorality (Mark 7:21). Jesus' teaching on moral issues in fact toughened and strengthenedthem, such as in Matthew 5:27-30 when he expanded our understanding of sexual sin to even lusting in our heart! Jesus didn't merely accept people as he found them—he turned people's lives around. After his encounter with Jesus, the tax collector Zacchaeus pledged to pay back his debts fourfold (Luke 19). And Jesus made it clear to the adulteress in John 8 to leave her life of sin. Further, Jesus specifically said that he did not come to abolish the law (Matthew 5:17). Jewish law was quite clear on homosexual behavior. To suggest that Jesus would have condoned homosexual behavior is twisting Scripture for political correctness.
The God of the Bible is not merely a God of love and forgiveness. God has characteristics of love AND justice (among others). Jesus, for example, warns about hell more than any other biblical figure! We must not underestimate the holiness of God, who demands right conduct—in fact, perfection (Matthew 5:48). For examples of the wrath and judgment of God, read: Genesis 2:17; 2 Kings 17:18; Psalm 74:1, 79:5, 90:11; Proverbs 10:16; Micah 7:9; Zephaniah 3:8;Matthew 5:29, 7:13, 25:46; Romans 1:32, 2:8, 6:23; Acts 3:19; 1 Corinthians 6:9;Galatians 6:7-8; Philippians 3:19; 2 Thessalonians 1:9; James 1:15; andRevelation 20:12-15. There are those who suggest that God is merely a God of love and accepts people just as they are. Certainly that is incorrect. God does not accept us as we are. He demands repentance. We must not create a God to suit ourself. This isidolatry which is a violation of the Second Commandment. Here are links that sheds further light on what the Bible says about homosexuality and gay marriage: Got Questions on Marriage What Jesus Said about Homosexuality, Part 1 What Jesus Said about Homosexuality, Part 2 Did Jesus Address Same-Sex Marriage?
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Bob: This is a good article on Homosexuality. Even in the christian community, people are softening their stance on homosexuality because of political pressure and correctness. I'm saving this for future use. Vera Martin
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My Solution for USA Christians
1. Do it Gods way and our country will be blessed once again.
2. If our politicians will NOT listen. - Do not call Gay's Joining together “marriage”. This should be an insult to ALL Christians. Call it something else. To us the term "Marriage" should be kept as Holy Matrimony. Let the new relationship have its own new term.
3. If they will NOT listen to the above. Have a separate Marriage for Christians. Many States have State Marriages and Covenant Marriages. Let us enjoy the distinction. Maybe we can even help lower the divorce rate by doing this. Maybe we can give Church weddings more power by doing this!
Min. Bob Cutting
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I received and sent out the following. Your comments are encouraged:
Friends,
There exists a person who questions that we are commanded by Jesus to love. I have answered him in sorts. Here is his message below. This is in response to my message on Gay Marriage. Please let me know what you would say on behalf of Jesus and I will post it.
I have been wondering where we are commanded to love everyone as well.
I am familiar with the verse that says love your enemies in red letters, Mathew 5:44 and Luke 6:27 &35... At times I wonder where the balance is. When the homosexuals throw this at a Christian, I know they have no idea what it means and neither do many Christians... Tolerance of evil is evil Romans 1:32, we are to Hate what God hates. Do we hate or love or both? There are things to hate. Tolerance is an evil word when tolerating evil/sin... So love is not to be a shield for sin to hide behind. Love may require a strong correction, a slap in the face with truth, some may call that hate aka hate speech. I hate sin and if a person insist his sin is not to be judged and says love everyone which means tolerate their sin to show love, I BELIEVE THIS IS A LIE and weakens a Christian to stand on the rock of righteousness. We should not disarm one and other but sharpen the sword of true to snuff out evil...
"Love your enemy" is a directive for a particular situation, not all or everyone is an enemy those who come against you directly are an enemy. Do you love God's enemy? The word everyone is a broad brush term that I don't find as a command in the common phrase used that we are to love everyone, some cannot be loved because they are an enemy of God's. Psa 139:21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
There is plenty to debate but sound teaching and doctrine is what we are responsible for not cliche's and general statements that disarm our brothers and sisters. Let's be clear what is to be loved and what is hated...this is a Biblical 2nd amendment issue... "Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act." Dietrich Bonheoffer That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; Php_2:15
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2013 19:28:33 -0700 Subject: Re: Gay Marriage? To: bobcutting@sbcglobal.netRobert,
Please give me chapter and verse where God commands us to Love everyone as you have asserted below. Adding to Gods Word and Taking away from Gods Word is serious business. I have called this to your attention previously in detail and before witnesses and yet you continue to editorialize The infallible Word of God. I have no choice but to provide you with the chapters and verses below that you willingly ignore and ask you to please remove me from your distribution List.
Sharing the The TRUTH IN LOVE, Rev. Vernon York
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Well we are to LOVE all.
We are not to judge the world for they are already condemned. If our brothers or sisters are in sin we are to approach them not the world. We are simply suppose to love and love covers all sin. Jesus so loved the world that He went to the cross with this love and covered our sin. No, we are not to love the sin but yes most definitely we are to still love the world just as Jesus did when He went to the cross for you and me. we were just as sinful as the world but we accepted His gift of life, and our life is to show His love to the world. That to me is basic scripture. Go out into all the world and give them the truth, LOVE!
Blessings as only He can give,
Elaine
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Hi Bob..............Sounds like your conversation has worked its way into the very most basic and important concept of all Christianity. I sure hope I can help shed some light on this discussion. I've listed below two references from Scripture about love. There are many others of course. Any good Bible concordance will help you find the others. When I hear about loving God and others, I tend to look past the outer looks, behavior and actions of that person. It matters little to me if the outer issue is about being gay for example or anything else, good or bad. I'm concerned for the soul of that person. And I believe that's what God is after as well. Some might describe it as looking for that person's heart. God is after our hearts, many will say. We're really talking about a person's core and essence here. Now, Jesus tells us to love God with all our essence and ability. And then He also repeats that command with regard to people, thereby giving us the "Two Great Commandments" we all grew up with over the years.But He also tells us something else....to love others as we love ourselves. That last part might be the hardest thing to do of all. I believe there are now 3 great commandments for us to live by in the 21st century. Love God (1), Love one another (2), and we are to love ourselves (3). Along comes 1 John 4:20 which tells us that unless we love our brothers (and sisters) whom we see every day, then we cannot claim to love God whom we have not seen, ever. It seems that caring for our brethren comes first. But then go back to Matt 22:37 where Jesus sneaks in that 3rd command that we are to love others as we love ourselves. So, if we care little about ourselves, our health, our spiritual condition, what we eat, how we act, etc etc, then how can we properly love others ? We don't even correctly care for our very own precious bodies and souls. We therefore have nothing correct to which we can compare our love for others! And then where does that leave us with loving God......precisely nowhere. In fact we do not love Him whom we have not seen because we cannot love those who we do see, since so many of us care so little about our own person. The three positions are all tied together! And they only work from the last position back to the first. So if we want to argue about how to love gay people, or people that kill others in a movie theater and more, we have to first look to ourselves. We in the America of the 21st Century have forgotten how to love ourselves. And the statistics concerning obesity, alcohol and drug abuse, violent videos, porn and all other manner of bad behavior surround us on all sides and heaped in a pile. And they condemn us. Look in the mirror first my friends. See what needs to change in you. Go and make the U-Turn and head back to where you know you should be. Start to love yourself. And then start looking for others to help, care for, and love. How they act or what's on the outside matters little. Go for their soul....go for their core....each and every one is worth loving and saving. After all, that's what Jesus does with each of us, no? 37 Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment . 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matt 22:37-40
20 If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother. 1 John 4:20-21
Peace to you all, Paul Ramunni
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I'm a terrible writer..but my first response in my gut- is that we love our children- but not their bad behavior. So I remind my child- I love YOU, I do not love the choice you made, I do not love your bad behavior, I tell them, I will always love you, but I expect better from you in the future.
Of course we hate sin- but I dont hate the human being. Can we not attract more with honey than vinegar? So then it should follow, that I can love someone who steals- but they know I do not condone or approve of stealing and will minister to them on how to avoid stealing- a change in heart and focus on whats important.
Others' sin in private- I have no way of knowing how they sin- but I love that person.
If we can minister to someone in love- that is not hate.
We live in challenging times when homosexuals are popular.
I recently had a dispute with a friend over a up and coming artist and i liked his song- until he created a video about a girl being gay, but viewing the world as hating her- spitting on her. She looked at me like I had 4 heads, couldn't believe Id openly (grocery store) admit that I did not care for the video. I love gays- because they are ultimately just another sinner- am I not a sinner too? I know I continue to sin, when I don't want to- or are we grading sin now? "Your sin is bigger than mine....", I don't condone their behavior- although I struggle sometimes with how much of a choice is it? Is it like an addiction to coccaine? Just really hard to break?
I know homosexuals who said they don't want to have these feelings- and they wish they could be straight...homosexuals confuse me. I don't understand the desire for the same sex....but I think of Soddom and Gamorrah....
I also believe that their sin is ultimately between them and God.
But when we face more and more laws that want to force us to make them equals in rights- I struggle with this. I fear for our Country and it's corruption and sin.
Love does not equal acceptence in my mind.
well thats as clear as mud isn't it?
Nicole Keating
I support....RESCUE through fostering. Adopt a dog! Helping save lives one dog at a time...I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do.Helen Keller
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Hi Pastor Bob, I recently had an experience while ministering in music at church. The Holy Spirit reminded me of what it was like to be a “lost sheep.” It was a very emotional experience, I remembered and felt what it was like to not know the Lord and I do not wish this for anyone. Sometimes we have to remember where we came from and we always have to remember that we are sinners saved by grace. More than ever, there is an urgency in me to reach the lost and bring them the good news! In Matthew 22:36-39, a Pharisee asked Jesus, “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And Jesus said to him,“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” The kind of love expressed in both of these laws is agape love. Regarding the second commandment, this love seeks the greatest good for our neighbor. By way of definition, “neighbor” in this passage refers to anyone who is around us: our actual neighbor or the person at the desk next to us at work etc. 2 Cor 3:4-6 (NKJV) 4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Gods love never fails. For me the bottom line is to love the sinner, hate the sin and let the results be His! God bless, Mike
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